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	<title>Comments on: Theory Talk</title>
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	<link>http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2003/09/10/theory-talk/</link>
	<description>faults &#124; sins &#124; abuses</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:22:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Chel</title>
		<link>http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2003/09/10/theory-talk/#comment-204</link>
		<dc:creator>Chel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/archives/2003/09/10/theory-talk/#comment-204</guid>
		<description>You lost me on Roland Barthes.  But prior to that, I was chomp chomp restraining on commenting.

If you're polling:  I don't hate theory but I don't anticipate it heartily, that's for sure.  I'm more interested in mastering the texts and mastering the criticism than I am in original scholarship. If I have a different idea, fine.  If not, fine.  

But I'm sure all your other fine readers will provide some insight on your pedagogical questions.  :) :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You lost me on Roland Barthes.  But prior to that, I was chomp chomp restraining on commenting.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re polling:  I don&#8217;t hate theory but I don&#8217;t anticipate it heartily, that&#8217;s for sure.  I&#8217;m more interested in mastering the texts and mastering the criticism than I am in original scholarship. If I have a different idea, fine.  If not, fine.  </p>
<p>But I&#8217;m sure all your other fine readers will provide some insight on your pedagogical questions.  <img src='http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> :)</p>
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		<title>By: michelle</title>
		<link>http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2003/09/10/theory-talk/#comment-205</link>
		<dc:creator>michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/archives/2003/09/10/theory-talk/#comment-205</guid>
		<description>PS I think you should revisit your statement that you get a lot of "it's bullshit" remarks.  I think that may be you r point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS I think you should revisit your statement that you get a lot of &#8220;it&#8217;s bullshit&#8221; remarks.  I think that may be you r point.</p>
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		<title>By: Curtiss Leung</title>
		<link>http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2003/09/10/theory-talk/#comment-206</link>
		<dc:creator>Curtiss Leung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/archives/2003/09/10/theory-talk/#comment-206</guid>
		<description>Beg to differ Michelle; seems Mike's ire is as roused by anti-intellectuals as by pseudo-intellectuals.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;While I was on vacation, I visited a friend of my partner's who was a physicist at Bell Labs during its glory days, and who still consults for technology firms in his retirement.&#160;He'd just read Sokal and Bricmont's Fashionable Nonsense, and, thus enlightened, declared &lt;b&gt;all&lt;/b&gt; philosophy to be worthless.&#160;It may be rude to contentiously dispute a point with one's host, but I'd brought two bottles of good wine, so I figured I had a pass on that point of etiquette.&#160;A single data point in favor of the proposition that substantial accomplishment in one field is no proof against anti-intellectual philisitinism towards others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Beg to differ Michelle; seems Mike&#8217;s ire is as roused by anti-intellectuals as by pseudo-intellectuals.</p>
<p>While I was on vacation, I visited a friend of my partner&#8217;s who was a physicist at Bell Labs during its glory days, and who still consults for technology firms in his retirement.&nbsp;He&#8217;d just read Sokal and Bricmont&#8217;s Fashionable Nonsense, and, thus enlightened, declared <b>all</b> philosophy to be worthless.&nbsp;It may be rude to contentiously dispute a point with one&#8217;s host, but I&#8217;d brought two bottles of good wine, so I figured I had a pass on that point of etiquette.&nbsp;A single data point in favor of the proposition that substantial accomplishment in one field is no proof against anti-intellectual philisitinism towards others.</p>
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		<title>By: Curtiss Leung</title>
		<link>http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2003/09/10/theory-talk/#comment-207</link>
		<dc:creator>Curtiss Leung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/archives/2003/09/10/theory-talk/#comment-207</guid>
		<description>Whoops&#8212;hit 'Post' instead of 'Preview.'&#160;That should in &lt;b&gt;'in others,'&lt;/b&gt; not 'towards others' above.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whoops&mdash;hit &#8216;Post&#8217; instead of &#8216;Preview.&#8217;&nbsp;That should in <b>&#8216;in others,&#8217;</b> not &#8216;towards others&#8217; above.</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2003/09/10/theory-talk/#comment-208</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/archives/2003/09/10/theory-talk/#comment-208</guid>
		<description>I think I may have to quit blogging these days.  I am always so excited, Mike, when you write about something I think I can relate to, that I just simply want to respond, but I can't seem to post anything coherent!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I may have to quit blogging these days.  I am always so excited, Mike, when you write about something I think I can relate to, that I just simply want to respond, but I can&#8217;t seem to post anything coherent!</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2003/09/10/theory-talk/#comment-209</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/archives/2003/09/10/theory-talk/#comment-209</guid>
		<description>PS, sorry Mike if that previous PS seemed offensive. I did not mean to it to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS, sorry Mike if that previous PS seemed offensive. I did not mean to it to be.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2003/09/10/theory-talk/#comment-210</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/archives/2003/09/10/theory-talk/#comment-210</guid>
		<description>Excellent post.

I actually used to be one of those whose gut-level instincts told me that theory was just a bunch of BS. It wasn't until I read a bit more that I came across an argument in one text (I'll avoid name-dropping for now, because that's almost always a drag) that people generally approach the subject that way because of its difficulty. 

Everything in theory is so intertextual that, at first, it's just overwhelming at first. The strange thing is that people are so ready to dismiss it because of that, and because of the level of abstraction that theory works on. 

Take a subject like Nuclear Physics or Rocket Science or whatever, which is just as unapproachable at the beginning, and people say that one just has to take the time and eventually everything will be made clear. 

I wonder what it is about theory that makes people just so damn hostile that they'd be willing to give it the same benefit of the doubt. I suspect that your point about the black turtleneck guy might be one of the reasons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post.</p>
<p>I actually used to be one of those whose gut-level instincts told me that theory was just a bunch of BS. It wasn&#8217;t until I read a bit more that I came across an argument in one text (I&#8217;ll avoid name-dropping for now, because that&#8217;s almost always a drag) that people generally approach the subject that way because of its difficulty. </p>
<p>Everything in theory is so intertextual that, at first, it&#8217;s just overwhelming at first. The strange thing is that people are so ready to dismiss it because of that, and because of the level of abstraction that theory works on. </p>
<p>Take a subject like Nuclear Physics or Rocket Science or whatever, which is just as unapproachable at the beginning, and people say that one just has to take the time and eventually everything will be made clear. </p>
<p>I wonder what it is about theory that makes people just so damn hostile that they&#8217;d be willing to give it the same benefit of the doubt. I suspect that your point about the black turtleneck guy might be one of the reasons.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2003/09/10/theory-talk/#comment-211</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/archives/2003/09/10/theory-talk/#comment-211</guid>
		<description>Michelle, no worries about "offensive" -- but I might ask you re "mastering the criticism" and your fondness for Cleanth Brooks: what assumptions about texts is Brooks basing his criticism upon? I mean, New Criticism is a method and a theory about texts that says, for starters, the text stands on its own in the world and is the only thing the critic needs to consider -- and that, in such a fashion, the critic's considerations can thereby be 'pure', as it were. As you might guess, I don't buy the "my position is completely neutral and apolitical" position. (Neither does Virginia Woolf in AROOO; you might get a kick out of what Toril Moi has to say about her in "Sexual Textual Politics".) And Curtiss is right: I think the stuff's worth thinking about, which is why I was psyched to see you responding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michelle, no worries about &#8220;offensive&#8221; &#8212; but I might ask you re &#8220;mastering the criticism&#8221; and your fondness for Cleanth Brooks: what assumptions about texts is Brooks basing his criticism upon? I mean, New Criticism is a method and a theory about texts that says, for starters, the text stands on its own in the world and is the only thing the critic needs to consider &#8212; and that, in such a fashion, the critic&#8217;s considerations can thereby be &#8216;pure&#8217;, as it were. As you might guess, I don&#8217;t buy the &#8220;my position is completely neutral and apolitical&#8221; position. (Neither does Virginia Woolf in AROOO; you might get a kick out of what Toril Moi has to say about her in &#8220;Sexual Textual Politics&#8221;.) And Curtiss is right: I think the stuff&#8217;s worth thinking about, which is why I was psyched to see you responding.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2003/09/10/theory-talk/#comment-212</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/archives/2003/09/10/theory-talk/#comment-212</guid>
		<description>Curtiss -- I've never understood the "this discipline is better than that discipline" tone to Sokal's arguments, or that underpins the hostility evident in so many sciences folks' attitudes towards the humanities. It shows up with some frequency over at IA.

Which, Rob, is why I was glad to see your comment about nuclear physics and such, and I wonder if -- in addition to the difficulty factor and the arrogant dorkiness of some people who sublimate their insecurity and lack of social graces into becoming "experts" on one theorist or another -- it's also the instrumentality effect or technology bigotry.

But I look at this and look at my previous posts where I talk about the same thing and realize that it's just something I can't let alone, because I can't figure out why it's such a vexed topic. So I'm sure I'll be back worrying at this old bone three or four months from now. (Maybe I'll revisit what cranky old Mr. Fish has to say about the topic, or check out &lt;a href="http://www.press.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/hfs.cgi/00/1547.ctl"&gt;Mr. Mitchell&lt;/a&gt; and the &lt;a href="http://www.uchicago.edu/research/jnl-crit-inq/v1-v19/v9n4.html"&gt;Critical Inquiry&lt;/a&gt; crew. Well, wait -- there's that dissertation thing. So maybe not.)
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Curtiss &#8212; I&#8217;ve never understood the &#8220;this discipline is better than that discipline&#8221; tone to Sokal&#8217;s arguments, or that underpins the hostility evident in so many sciences folks&#8217; attitudes towards the humanities. It shows up with some frequency over at IA.</p>
<p>Which, Rob, is why I was glad to see your comment about nuclear physics and such, and I wonder if &#8212; in addition to the difficulty factor and the arrogant dorkiness of some people who sublimate their insecurity and lack of social graces into becoming &#8220;experts&#8221; on one theorist or another &#8212; it&#8217;s also the instrumentality effect or technology bigotry.</p>
<p>But I look at this and look at my previous posts where I talk about the same thing and realize that it&#8217;s just something I can&#8217;t let alone, because I can&#8217;t figure out why it&#8217;s such a vexed topic. So I&#8217;m sure I&#8217;ll be back worrying at this old bone three or four months from now. (Maybe I&#8217;ll revisit what cranky old Mr. Fish has to say about the topic, or check out <a href="http://www.press.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/hfs.cgi/00/1547.ctl">Mr. Mitchell</a> and the <a href="http://www.uchicago.edu/research/jnl-crit-inq/v1-v19/v9n4.html">Critical Inquiry</a> crew. Well, wait &#8212; there&#8217;s that dissertation thing. So maybe not.)</p>
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