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	<title>Comments on: Chocolate Proletariat</title>
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	<link>http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2005/07/24/chocolate-proletariat/</link>
	<description>faults &#124; sins &#124; abuses</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:51:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: michelle</title>
		<link>http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2005/07/24/chocolate-proletariat/#comment-17553</link>
		<dc:creator>michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Aug 2005 22:42:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Dennis, I'm glad you posted that link here. I read the paper earlier and thought it was quite insightful.  I didn't, for instance, even know about the second edition revising so much and the backlash from the NAACP. Very interesting. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dennis, I&#8217;m glad you posted that link here. I read the paper earlier and thought it was quite insightful.  I didn&#8217;t, for instance, even know about the second edition revising so much and the backlash from the NAACP. Very interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis G. Jerz</title>
		<link>http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2005/07/24/chocolate-proletariat/#comment-17551</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis G. Jerz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Aug 2005 12:36:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I just saw the movie a little while ago, so I'm coming to this late.

Deep Roy, the actor who played all the Oompa Loompas, has a long history of playing under heavy make-up or inside boxes. While I don't mean to distract from the analyses of the sameness and otherness of the Oompa Loompas, my wife and I were delighted that Roy got so much "face time" (even if his voice was dubbed). 

For those intersted in a racial reading of Oompa Loompas, I suggest this student paper, posted on RoaldDahlFans.com, which describes Dahl's revision of the book (based on pressure from the NAACP. 

&lt;a href="http://www.roalddahlfans.com/articles/char.php" rel="nofollow"&gt;http://www.roalddahlfans.com/articles/char.php&lt;/a&gt;

The paper describes Dahl as changing the description of the Oompa Loompas from variations of African Pygmies to rosy-cheeked dwarfs (who look like white flower children). </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just saw the movie a little while ago, so I&#8217;m coming to this late.</p>
<p>Deep Roy, the actor who played all the Oompa Loompas, has a long history of playing under heavy make-up or inside boxes. While I don&#8217;t mean to distract from the analyses of the sameness and otherness of the Oompa Loompas, my wife and I were delighted that Roy got so much &#8220;face time&#8221; (even if his voice was dubbed). </p>
<p>For those intersted in a racial reading of Oompa Loompas, I suggest this student paper, posted on RoaldDahlFans.com, which describes Dahl&#8217;s revision of the book (based on pressure from the NAACP. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.roalddahlfans.com/articles/char.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.roalddahlfans.com/articles/char.php</a></p>
<p>The paper describes Dahl as changing the description of the Oompa Loompas from variations of African Pygmies to rosy-cheeked dwarfs (who look like white flower children).</p>
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		<title>By: michelle</title>
		<link>http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2005/07/24/chocolate-proletariat/#comment-17514</link>
		<dc:creator>michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2005 02:37:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>To address Donna's first paragraph, I'd like to add that for many people the reading is related to the book and related to their children and how they perceive it (Tristan read the book three times in the last month in preparation for this movie) because although it's one of the many "children's" movies that translates generational boundaries, those of us who have kids will be first and foremost concerned with their reading of it, not the critics' determination (or lack thereof).  That kaleidoscope may not render the most critical reading which Mike and Dorothea have given (or maybe I'm just making excuses for myself).  

I would like to add that I thought that that Violet and her mother and their parental-child unit, sans a father, absence of whom was unexplained and apparently unnecessary, was indicative of western society's obsessive overachieving woman who in efforts at independence has championed single motherhood to a point where it is selfish.  Of course, this is nothing new. Disney does this all the time.  Most Disney films have one parent missing and often, it is the father. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To address Donna&#8217;s first paragraph, I&#8217;d like to add that for many people the reading is related to the book and related to their children and how they perceive it (Tristan read the book three times in the last month in preparation for this movie) because although it&#8217;s one of the many &#8220;children&#8217;s&#8221; movies that translates generational boundaries, those of us who have kids will be first and foremost concerned with their reading of it, not the critics&#8217; determination (or lack thereof).  That kaleidoscope may not render the most critical reading which Mike and Dorothea have given (or maybe I&#8217;m just making excuses for myself).  </p>
<p>I would like to add that I thought that that Violet and her mother and their parental-child unit, sans a father, absence of whom was unexplained and apparently unnecessary, was indicative of western society&#8217;s obsessive overachieving woman who in efforts at independence has championed single motherhood to a point where it is selfish.  Of course, this is nothing new. Disney does this all the time.  Most Disney films have one parent missing and often, it is the father.</p>
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		<title>By: Donna</title>
		<link>http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2005/07/24/chocolate-proletariat/#comment-17513</link>
		<dc:creator>Donna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2005 02:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think I'm growing jaded and cynical in my older age. That's what I think. Well, not entirely. But when I was young and writing poetry, I used to think art could wake people up, change the world, all that. And I still want to believe it can. Which is why, these days, I'm more interested in the affective than the deliberative. I'm just not sure people wake up just because they're "told" things. So if there's a message, we have to read it, yes? But there's so much more to feel in the movie, feelings that maybe short-circuit a reading. I mean, my reading was short-circuited. So political art seems to need to make a different kind of feeling possible. 

But good conversation, all. And, Mike, I like that point about the poor/working class becoming affective surrogates. In the movie and in our field. Totally, yes. 
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I&#8217;m growing jaded and cynical in my older age. That&#8217;s what I think. Well, not entirely. But when I was young and writing poetry, I used to think art could wake people up, change the world, all that. And I still want to believe it can. Which is why, these days, I&#8217;m more interested in the affective than the deliberative. I&#8217;m just not sure people wake up just because they&#8217;re &#8220;told&#8221; things. So if there&#8217;s a message, we have to read it, yes? But there&#8217;s so much more to feel in the movie, feelings that maybe short-circuit a reading. I mean, my reading was short-circuited. So political art seems to need to make a different kind of feeling possible. </p>
<p>But good conversation, all. And, Mike, I like that point about the poor/working class becoming affective surrogates. In the movie and in our field. Totally, yes.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2005/07/24/chocolate-proletariat/#comment-17512</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2005 00:46:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/archives/2005/07/24/chocolate-proletariat/#comment-17512</guid>
		<description>I think I can manage to be sufficiently vague here, Dorothea: the implications of the ending -- with the external shot in that last scene that suddenly, startlingly becomes an internal shot -- seem to me to be that no matter what happens, or how much they advance, the poor can never truly leave behind the trappings of their poverty. There's also the weird concluding notion about the poor serving as emotional or affective surrogates or proxies for the rich; an idea that I've seen echoed in some of the literature in my discipline that constructs the working class as somehow more emotional than the middle class or the professional class.

I like &lt;a href="http://cavlec.yarinareth.net/archives/2005/07/25/more-on-the-factory/" rel="nofollow"&gt;what you said&lt;/a&gt;, too, Dorothea, about the rules of the zero-sum game and who plays and who doesn't, although the notion that the losers not only lose but must be humiliated or destroyed is much more Dahl than Burton.

And yeah, I'll admit I was distracted by The Pretty, as well. I'm not surprised A. O. Scott missed the class stuff -- I mean, look at the NYT's pathetic past treatment of class and inequality -- but aside from that, I don't have much an answer for your question about political art, Donna. It seems like a two-stage question, though: first, how explicit should one be with one's political intent; how much do you display or show your audience about the workings of your rhetoric? Shadi Bartsch, in her fantastic study of Neronian literature in &lt;em&gt;Actors in the Audience&lt;/em&gt;, talks about works of art that carry multiple and sometimes diametrically opposed meanings depending upon who's interpreting them, essentially turning Leo Strauss's esoteric / exoteric binary to the liberatory left rather than to Strauss's elitist and Machiavellian right. (As it happens, she's at Chicago, too.) Then the second stage of the question is: how does this political message or rhetoric or art, encoded within artifacts of culture, become political action?

Like I said, I don't really have an answer. But I think it's a good question, and I'd be curious to hear what you think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I can manage to be sufficiently vague here, Dorothea: the implications of the ending &#8212; with the external shot in that last scene that suddenly, startlingly becomes an internal shot &#8212; seem to me to be that no matter what happens, or how much they advance, the poor can never truly leave behind the trappings of their poverty. There&#8217;s also the weird concluding notion about the poor serving as emotional or affective surrogates or proxies for the rich; an idea that I&#8217;ve seen echoed in some of the literature in my discipline that constructs the working class as somehow more emotional than the middle class or the professional class.</p>
<p>I like <a href="http://cavlec.yarinareth.net/archives/2005/07/25/more-on-the-factory/" rel="nofollow">what you said</a>, too, Dorothea, about the rules of the zero-sum game and who plays and who doesn&#8217;t, although the notion that the losers not only lose but must be humiliated or destroyed is much more Dahl than Burton.</p>
<p>And yeah, I&#8217;ll admit I was distracted by The Pretty, as well. I&#8217;m not surprised A. O. Scott missed the class stuff &#8212; I mean, look at the NYT&#8217;s pathetic past treatment of class and inequality &#8212; but aside from that, I don&#8217;t have much an answer for your question about political art, Donna. It seems like a two-stage question, though: first, how explicit should one be with one&#8217;s political intent; how much do you display or show your audience about the workings of your rhetoric? Shadi Bartsch, in her fantastic study of Neronian literature in <em>Actors in the Audience</em>, talks about works of art that carry multiple and sometimes diametrically opposed meanings depending upon who&#8217;s interpreting them, essentially turning Leo Strauss&#8217;s esoteric / exoteric binary to the liberatory left rather than to Strauss&#8217;s elitist and Machiavellian right. (As it happens, she&#8217;s at Chicago, too.) Then the second stage of the question is: how does this political message or rhetoric or art, encoded within artifacts of culture, become political action?</p>
<p>Like I said, I don&#8217;t really have an answer. But I think it&#8217;s a good question, and I&#8217;d be curious to hear what you think.</p>
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		<title>By: Dorothea Salo</title>
		<link>http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2005/07/24/chocolate-proletariat/#comment-17509</link>
		<dc:creator>Dorothea Salo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2005 21:33:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/archives/2005/07/24/chocolate-proletariat/#comment-17509</guid>
		<description>Donna, I think you're right on about people being distracted by The Pretty. (I mean, I went to see Johnny Depp. I'm sure I'm not alone. I just kept getting whacked in the face with this reading like a big wet fish.)

I'm just boggled by all these reviewers who proudly proclaim that they looked for a point and didn't find one, though. Dudes. Stop looking under the lamppost and c'mon over here...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Donna, I think you&#8217;re right on about people being distracted by The Pretty. (I mean, I went to see Johnny Depp. I&#8217;m sure I&#8217;m not alone. I just kept getting whacked in the face with this reading like a big wet fish.)</p>
<p>I&#8217;m just boggled by all these reviewers who proudly proclaim that they looked for a point and didn&#8217;t find one, though. Dudes. Stop looking under the lamppost and c&#8217;mon over here&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Donna</title>
		<link>http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2005/07/24/chocolate-proletariat/#comment-17508</link>
		<dc:creator>Donna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2005 18:30:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/archives/2005/07/24/chocolate-proletariat/#comment-17508</guid>
		<description>Good points, Dorothea and Mike. I'm happy to be convinced of the movie's subversive intent. I think I had been lulled to sleep by critics (including A O Scott of the NY Times) who assured me the movie had no point (just like candy!). 

So that leaves open the question, though, of the effect, doesn't it? What does the skewering of labor abuse and class stratification do if only the three of us see it? (I realize this is a bigger question for any political art--but why not raise it?) And might the visual pleasures of the film *affectively* subvert the politically subversive intent? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points, Dorothea and Mike. I&#8217;m happy to be convinced of the movie&#8217;s subversive intent. I think I had been lulled to sleep by critics (including A O Scott of the NY Times) who assured me the movie had no point (just like candy!). </p>
<p>So that leaves open the question, though, of the effect, doesn&#8217;t it? What does the skewering of labor abuse and class stratification do if only the three of us see it? (I realize this is a bigger question for any political art&#8211;but why not raise it?) And might the visual pleasures of the film *affectively* subvert the politically subversive intent?</p>
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		<title>By: Dorothea Salo</title>
		<link>http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2005/07/24/chocolate-proletariat/#comment-17507</link>
		<dc:creator>Dorothea Salo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2005 13:44:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I wish you'd spell out what you think the implications of the ending are, Mike, with all appropriate spoiler warnings of course. I think I know more or less what you mean, but I am very possibly wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish you&#8217;d spell out what you think the implications of the ending are, Mike, with all appropriate spoiler warnings of course. I think I know more or less what you mean, but I am very possibly wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: mike</title>
		<link>http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2005/07/24/chocolate-proletariat/#comment-17506</link>
		<dc:creator>mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2005 02:20:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/archives/2005/07/24/chocolate-proletariat/#comment-17506</guid>
		<description>I think it's the discomfort thing, Dorothea, and the idea that it's supposed to be a "children's" movie, and in America we mustn't talk about class issues in front of the children. I hadn't even thought about the scrapbook pages, but -- wow -- yes, absolutely: newspaper articles about local employment, the tenements over which Wonka's factory towers, the lockout, third-world cheap labor, increased consumption brings about automation brings about unemployment, and then the way in which a certain thing gets subsumed into another thing in the end -- the more one looks at it, the more glaring it seems.

And Donna, I agree with Dorothea that the glaring quality -- that very over-the-topness -- was likely in service of subversive critique. I mean, Burton skewered suburbia in Edward Scissorhands, fears of miscegenation in Planet of the Apes, yuppie homemakers in Beetlejuice: the guy ain't exactly subtle. In his own way, I think he's doing a little bit of what Freire called &lt;a href="http://www.marxists.org/subject/education/freire/pedagogy/ch02.htm"&gt;"problem-posing,"&lt;/a&gt; and -- let's be honest -- if  you're not doing art-house stuff, you can't really afford subtlety in American cinema. (And I suddenly feel like I should offer a general apology: that sentence itself constitutes a bit of &lt;a href="http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/4212"&gt;Matthew Arnoldian&lt;/a&gt; classist snobbery.) And, again, Dorothea's right: people &lt;em&gt;still&lt;/em&gt; aren't talking about it, despite the over-the-topness of the way in which Burton poses the problem.

I wonder if there's some sort of tendency where movie critics consider themselves to be high-art cultural critics, far above commenting on crudely material and crass concerns of labor and class. As usual, the &lt;a href="http://www.chicagoreader.com/movies/archives/2005/0705/050715.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;Chicago Reader&lt;/a&gt; is a welcome exception with J. R. Jones's careful review -- but I wish they'd given the assignment to &lt;a href="http://www.chicagoreader.com/movies/rosenbaum.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;Jonathan Rosenbaum&lt;/a&gt;, who's had fine things to say in the past about representations of class in American cinema.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s the discomfort thing, Dorothea, and the idea that it&#8217;s supposed to be a &#8220;children&#8217;s&#8221; movie, and in America we mustn&#8217;t talk about class issues in front of the children. I hadn&#8217;t even thought about the scrapbook pages, but &#8212; wow &#8212; yes, absolutely: newspaper articles about local employment, the tenements over which Wonka&#8217;s factory towers, the lockout, third-world cheap labor, increased consumption brings about automation brings about unemployment, and then the way in which a certain thing gets subsumed into another thing in the end &#8212; the more one looks at it, the more glaring it seems.</p>
<p>And Donna, I agree with Dorothea that the glaring quality &#8212; that very over-the-topness &#8212; was likely in service of subversive critique. I mean, Burton skewered suburbia in Edward Scissorhands, fears of miscegenation in Planet of the Apes, yuppie homemakers in Beetlejuice: the guy ain&#8217;t exactly subtle. In his own way, I think he&#8217;s doing a little bit of what Freire called <a href="http://www.marxists.org/subject/education/freire/pedagogy/ch02.htm">&#8220;problem-posing,&#8221;</a> and &#8212; let&#8217;s be honest &#8212; if  you&#8217;re not doing art-house stuff, you can&#8217;t really afford subtlety in American cinema. (And I suddenly feel like I should offer a general apology: that sentence itself constitutes a bit of <a href="http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/4212">Matthew Arnoldian</a> classist snobbery.) And, again, Dorothea&#8217;s right: people <em>still</em> aren&#8217;t talking about it, despite the over-the-topness of the way in which Burton poses the problem.</p>
<p>I wonder if there&#8217;s some sort of tendency where movie critics consider themselves to be high-art cultural critics, far above commenting on crudely material and crass concerns of labor and class. As usual, the <a href="http://www.chicagoreader.com/movies/archives/2005/0705/050715.html" rel="nofollow">Chicago Reader</a> is a welcome exception with J. R. Jones&#8217;s careful review &#8212; but I wish they&#8217;d given the assignment to <a href="http://www.chicagoreader.com/movies/rosenbaum.html" rel="nofollow">Jonathan Rosenbaum</a>, who&#8217;s had fine things to say in the past about representations of class in American cinema.</p>
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		<title>By: Dorothea Salo</title>
		<link>http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2005/07/24/chocolate-proletariat/#comment-17505</link>
		<dc:creator>Dorothea Salo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2005 00:23:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think -- I certainly hope! -- the over-the-topness was intentional precisely to make people a wee bit uncomfortable. I do think this is what was intended, because of the scrapbook pages (okay, HERE I'll spoil it) talking about how the original opening of the factory was such a boon to local employment.

The sad thing is, the subversion doesn't seem to have worked. I haven't seen a single review pick up on this, and I've read many. Or maybe people are too uncomfortable with it to comment?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think &#8212; I certainly hope! &#8212; the over-the-topness was intentional precisely to make people a wee bit uncomfortable. I do think this is what was intended, because of the scrapbook pages (okay, HERE I&#8217;ll spoil it) talking about how the original opening of the factory was such a boon to local employment.</p>
<p>The sad thing is, the subversion doesn&#8217;t seem to have worked. I haven&#8217;t seen a single review pick up on this, and I&#8217;ve read many. Or maybe people are too uncomfortable with it to comment?</p>
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