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	<title>Comments on: CCCC06: Publish, Plagiarize, and/or Perish?</title>
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	<link>http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2006/03/25/cccc06-publish-plagiarize-andor-perish/</link>
	<description>faults &#124; sins &#124; abuses</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 23:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: vitia &#187; Blog Archive &#187; CCCC06: Blogging, Part 2</title>
		<link>http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2006/03/25/cccc06-publish-plagiarize-andor-perish/#comment-23812</link>
		<dc:creator>vitia &#187; Blog Archive &#187; CCCC06: Blogging, Part 2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Apr 2006 04:31:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2006/03/26/cccc06-publish-plagiarize-andor-perish/#comment-23812</guid>
		<description>[...] Jonathan Goodwin&#8217;s presentation, &#8220;Blogging and Scholarly Publication: Some Thoughts on Access and Mediation,&#8221; followed Clancy&#8217;s, asking the fundamental question: how does scholarly publishing relate to academic weblogging? If the alleged academic publishing crisis does, in fact, exist (a contention to which Mike Palmquist offers compelling counter-evidence), then what should scholarly publishing do? According to Goodwin, the most salient fact about scholarly publishing is how little of it gets read (Mike&#8217;s editorializing again: &#8220;little,&#8221; of course, being an entirely relative term), and the attendant hyperspecialization of scholarly publishing. And as published scholars further their careers and their chances of future publication by publishing, they reach a sort of critical mass of scholarly influence, wherein invitations and opportunities to publish flow more readily to them, creating a scholarly circumstance where, as Goodwin argues, &#8220;the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Jonathan Goodwin&#8217;s presentation, &#8220;Blogging and Scholarly Publication: Some Thoughts on Access and Mediation,&#8221; followed Clancy&#8217;s, asking the fundamental question: how does scholarly publishing relate to academic weblogging? If the alleged academic publishing crisis does, in fact, exist (a contention to which Mike Palmquist offers compelling counter-evidence), then what should scholarly publishing do? According to Goodwin, the most salient fact about scholarly publishing is how little of it gets read (Mike&#8217;s editorializing again: &#8220;little,&#8221; of course, being an entirely relative term), and the attendant hyperspecialization of scholarly publishing. And as published scholars further their careers and their chances of future publication by publishing, they reach a sort of critical mass of scholarly influence, wherein invitations and opportunities to publish flow more readily to them, creating a scholarly circumstance where, as Goodwin argues, &#8220;the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nels</title>
		<link>http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2006/03/25/cccc06-publish-plagiarize-andor-perish/#comment-23760</link>
		<dc:creator>Nels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Mar 2006 01:48:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2006/03/26/cccc06-publish-plagiarize-andor-perish/#comment-23760</guid>
		<description>I'm teaching editing next spring, and will be keeping all of this in mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m teaching editing next spring, and will be keeping all of this in mind.</p>
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		<title>By: Dorothea</title>
		<link>http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2006/03/25/cccc06-publish-plagiarize-andor-perish/#comment-23758</link>
		<dc:creator>Dorothea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Mar 2006 01:30:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2006/03/26/cccc06-publish-plagiarize-andor-perish/#comment-23758</guid>
		<description>I hear where you're coming from. You are probably not in a position to get this started where you are.

But that needn't stop you from evangelizing your colleagues, who work at places like mine, which *are* in a position to gear up some experimental new publishing models, *if only faculty would sign on*. There is only so much I can do, not least because faculty look down their pointed little noses at mere librarians. They need to hear it from YOU, because YOU have been tattooed into the tribe.

As for editing classes, the USDA Graduate School offers some pretty good ones by correspondence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hear where you&#8217;re coming from. You are probably not in a position to get this started where you are.</p>
<p>But that needn&#8217;t stop you from evangelizing your colleagues, who work at places like mine, which *are* in a position to gear up some experimental new publishing models, *if only faculty would sign on*. There is only so much I can do, not least because faculty look down their pointed little noses at mere librarians. They need to hear it from YOU, because YOU have been tattooed into the tribe.</p>
<p>As for editing classes, the USDA Graduate School offers some pretty good ones by correspondence.</p>
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		<title>By: mike</title>
		<link>http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2006/03/25/cccc06-publish-plagiarize-andor-perish/#comment-23757</link>
		<dc:creator>mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Mar 2006 23:39:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2006/03/26/cccc06-publish-plagiarize-andor-perish/#comment-23757</guid>
		<description>I've certainly seen the claim "that copyediting is greasy kid stuff"  -- and I've seen some unfortunate manuscripts, as well, and I agree with you. It may be, in fact, that some college writing teachers -- because of their academic position -- are even more recklessly arrogant in relation to their own manuscripts and (supposed) editing skills than other academics.

But you mention "business models that appropriately handle first-copy costs" and then advocate for "teaming with libraries to create publishing arms that [...] aren't expected to pay for themselves," and my first impulse is to ask: where are those libraries? You know I'm finishing up at an institution in a state that consistently ranks 48th or 49th in public funding for higher education, and the library at our flagship campus recently had its budget slashed by more than 15 percent -- so you can figure how many journal subscriptions got cancelled, &lt;em&gt;et cetera&lt;/em&gt;, and I hope you'll hear where I'm coming from when I ask, "What business model?"

As a writing teacher, I very much want to equip students with at least basic copyediting skills (in addition to everything else we do), and -- in the teacher-training roles I've held and hope to continue to hold -- I also want to make sure that other teachers have those skills, as well. In fact, I'd like to ask you, for my own sake: what would you say are the most important things would-be editors need to know about text artisanry, and are there sources to which you would direct them for self-education?

And as someone who takes a Marxian perspective on economic concerns in higher education, I'll ask: what are some of the better business models you've seen?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve certainly seen the claim &#8220;that copyediting is greasy kid stuff&#8221;  &#8212; and I&#8217;ve seen some unfortunate manuscripts, as well, and I agree with you. It may be, in fact, that some college writing teachers &#8212; because of their academic position &#8212; are even more recklessly arrogant in relation to their own manuscripts and (supposed) editing skills than other academics.</p>
<p>But you mention &#8220;business models that appropriately handle first-copy costs&#8221; and then advocate for &#8220;teaming with libraries to create publishing arms that [...] aren&#8217;t expected to pay for themselves,&#8221; and my first impulse is to ask: where are those libraries? You know I&#8217;m finishing up at an institution in a state that consistently ranks 48th or 49th in public funding for higher education, and the library at our flagship campus recently had its budget slashed by more than 15 percent &#8212; so you can figure how many journal subscriptions got cancelled, <em>et cetera</em>, and I hope you&#8217;ll hear where I&#8217;m coming from when I ask, &#8220;What business model?&#8221;</p>
<p>As a writing teacher, I very much want to equip students with at least basic copyediting skills (in addition to everything else we do), and &#8212; in the teacher-training roles I&#8217;ve held and hope to continue to hold &#8212; I also want to make sure that other teachers have those skills, as well. In fact, I&#8217;d like to ask you, for my own sake: what would you say are the most important things would-be editors need to know about text artisanry, and are there sources to which you would direct them for self-education?</p>
<p>And as someone who takes a Marxian perspective on economic concerns in higher education, I&#8217;ll ask: what are some of the better business models you&#8217;ve seen?</p>
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		<title>By: Dorothea</title>
		<link>http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2006/03/25/cccc06-publish-plagiarize-andor-perish/#comment-23756</link>
		<dc:creator>Dorothea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Mar 2006 22:14:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2006/03/26/cccc06-publish-plagiarize-andor-perish/#comment-23756</guid>
		<description>If you seriously want to learn how, great. I got no problem with that. What I usually see, however, is broad claims that copyediting is greasy kid stuff that no self-respecting academic needs.

I've seen their manuscripts. I know better.

Copyediting is a commodity as it is, done by freelancers. What we need are business models that appropriately handle first-copy costs. Everything else is gravy.

I'm for teaming with libraries to create publishing arms that (unlike uni presses) aren't expected to pay for themselves -- but you knew I'd say that. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you seriously want to learn how, great. I got no problem with that. What I usually see, however, is broad claims that copyediting is greasy kid stuff that no self-respecting academic needs.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen their manuscripts. I know better.</p>
<p>Copyediting is a commodity as it is, done by freelancers. What we need are business models that appropriately handle first-copy costs. Everything else is gravy.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m for teaming with libraries to create publishing arms that (unlike uni presses) aren&#8217;t expected to pay for themselves &#8212; but you knew I&#8217;d say that. <img src='http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: mike</title>
		<link>http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2006/03/25/cccc06-publish-plagiarize-andor-perish/#comment-23755</link>
		<dc:creator>mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Mar 2006 20:24:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2006/03/26/cccc06-publish-plagiarize-andor-perish/#comment-23755</guid>
		<description>Good point, Dorothea. Mike already knows a good bit about OA -- his venue was where Charlie Lowe's &lt;a href="http://wac.colostate.edu/atd/articles/lowe2003/" rel="nofollow"&gt;excellent paper&lt;/a&gt; on the implications of OA for writing teachers was published -- and I think that's where some of his comments were coming from, but it definitely demands further discussion.

And I agree about copyediting, but I wonder where that places the exigency for action: do we say, "Well, academics can't copyedit, so leave it to the professionals embedded in the cost structures of conventional publishing" -- or do we say, "Well, as academics, and especially as writing teachers, maybe we need to learn how to copyedit better, and get ourselves some of that professional expertise"? I think I know what many writing teachers, in our pride, might say (though I've seen some careless pieces published -- one  in an online journal with the name of the journal misspelled in the Works Cited); what would the text artisans say?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point, Dorothea. Mike already knows a good bit about OA &#8212; his venue was where Charlie Lowe&#8217;s <a href="http://wac.colostate.edu/atd/articles/lowe2003/" rel="nofollow">excellent paper</a> on the implications of OA for writing teachers was published &#8212; and I think that&#8217;s where some of his comments were coming from, but it definitely demands further discussion.</p>
<p>And I agree about copyediting, but I wonder where that places the exigency for action: do we say, &#8220;Well, academics can&#8217;t copyedit, so leave it to the professionals embedded in the cost structures of conventional publishing&#8221; &#8212; or do we say, &#8220;Well, as academics, and especially as writing teachers, maybe we need to learn how to copyedit better, and get ourselves some of that professional expertise&#8221;? I think I know what many writing teachers, in our pride, might say (though I&#8217;ve seen some careless pieces published &#8212; one  in an online journal with the name of the journal misspelled in the Works Cited); what would the text artisans say?</p>
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		<title>By: Dorothea</title>
		<link>http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2006/03/25/cccc06-publish-plagiarize-andor-perish/#comment-23750</link>
		<dc:creator>Dorothea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Mar 2006 13:10:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2006/03/26/cccc06-publish-plagiarize-andor-perish/#comment-23750</guid>
		<description>Please hook Palmquist up with the open-access movement, which answers several of his concerns about scholarly publishing. My upcoming HigherEdBlogCon paper/podcast might be of interest to him.

My only quibble with his suggested solutions is that most academics can't copyedit worth a damn. It's harder than it looks! Text artisanry needs to be done by text artisans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please hook Palmquist up with the open-access movement, which answers several of his concerns about scholarly publishing. My upcoming HigherEdBlogCon paper/podcast might be of interest to him.</p>
<p>My only quibble with his suggested solutions is that most academics can&#8217;t copyedit worth a damn. It&#8217;s harder than it looks! Text artisanry needs to be done by text artisans.</p>
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		<title>By: vitia &#187; Blog Archive &#187; CCCC06: Posts on Deck</title>
		<link>http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2006/03/25/cccc06-publish-plagiarize-andor-perish/#comment-23745</link>
		<dc:creator>vitia &#187; Blog Archive &#187; CCCC06: Posts on Deck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Mar 2006 08:40:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vitia.org/wordpress/2006/03/26/cccc06-publish-plagiarize-andor-perish/#comment-23745</guid>
		<description>[...] &#171; CCCC06: Publish, Plagiarize, and/or Perish? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &laquo; CCCC06: Publish, Plagiarize, and/or Perish? [...]</p>
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